Is Skinning Worth It?

- Alot of time, no money back, headaches....

Published on November 26, 2005 By --Gabriel In Community

[rant]
Okay, I like doing graphic design. I grew up on a farm, in the middle of a 200 acre cornfield, I didn't like to ride 4-wheelers, go hunting, or line dance so I messed around with the computer when my Dad first bought an old 486. I was lucky enough that my best friends dad was a web-page designer on the side, and that MY dad is an art teacher an had an educational version of Photoshop. I began designing really ugly websites that served no purpose because it was fun and I had nothing better to do.

A few years later when Windows 2000 came out, and everyone was itching for XP I saw a program that could let me have the look of XP early on my older system... I thought that was pretty neat and so I used it. I began customizing the look of my PC and soon began designing skins because they actually were appreciated by people (unlike the useless websites I created.)

I've been happy to make skins and upload them but now as I'm becoming more and more busy and the time it takes to make a good skin become greater and greater with all the new features the fun factor is beginning to wane. I still enjoy the compliments, and the creativity involved... but is it worth dealing with the headaches, the insults, the assholes, the loss of free time?

In my observation several good skinners have recently seemed to say that it isn't worth the hassle, and kept thier creations to themselves. They may be onto something.
[/rant]

Comments (Page 4)

Phoon

on Nov 27, 2005

It is weighted by access level which makes a huge difference. If one jerk at citizen level gives a rating of 1 to a good skin and an admin gives it 5 stars, it's going to have 5 stars still. It would take 5 or so jerks to bring it down to 4 stars even and that's exceptionally rare.

Then maybe break it out to disply..
Admin Rating: x Stars
User Rating: x Stars
Avg Rating: x Stars

This might help keep people honest.

Koasati

on Nov 27, 2005

What would you have us do then Phoon? There has to be some sort of mechanism in order for casual users to be able to sort through the skins of various qualities.

I think the problem is not so much the ratings. What upsets people is a low rating 'hiding' the submission from the 'casual' visitor.

Fuzzy Logic

on Nov 27, 2005

If a mod gives a skin 3 stars, then a drive-by gives it 1 star, that isn't going to have an effect due to the weighting system mentioned above. Where it is a problem is for those with high enough access levels to have skins auto approved. They go through with an automated 3 stars on, the drive-by comes along and rates it 1 star - the rating goes to 1 star because the auto rating is overwritten. I know, it happened to my last skin. Fortunately others came along to rate and the rating moved up. But you can see how frustrating that can be.

You could post your best ever skin only to have it immediately knocked to 1 star by a passing twit. That's why people with no skinning experience should not be allowed to rate. I don't care if they've paid, the privilege should be removed. Put rating in the hands of those who know what it feels like to be rated.

Sleeping Dragon

on Nov 27, 2005

I would have to jump on board with this thought. It is the heart of the matter.

Apocalypse_67

on Nov 27, 2005

One possible solution to the problem would be to have users download first, comment second and rate third in that specific order (if they try to rate before a download or comment, it would not accept the rating), and show the rating given on the comment left. People will think twice before granting a malicious rating to a skin. This will keep users honest and skinners happier.
The ability to control who comments on the skins is a great idea too. This will take away some of stress on the admins/mods that have to deal with many emails concerning improper comments.

Just my thoughts

Apocalypse_67

on Nov 27, 2005

They go through with an automated 3 stars on, the drive-by comes along and rates it 1 star - the rating goes to 1 star because the auto rating is overwritten.

This is one on the most common problems and since not all admins rate skins, the possibility of having a skin rated with enough weight to disregard the drive-by twits is near to none.
A couple of days ago I had to email Jafo when 2 mins after I uploaded a skin (and with no download count) it was granted a 1 star. If the rating would've stayed, the skin would have remained hidden and the purpose of loading it would've been lost.

--Gabriel

on Nov 27, 2005

Could you allow people to police comments on thier own uploads. Give the author the ability to delete comments on his own skins?

jamoman

on Nov 27, 2005

Why not let only skinners rate & comment on skins? I mean you guys know more about skinning than any driveby haters.

canmandeco

on Nov 27, 2005

Admin Frogboy: We will never get rid of the rating system. There will always be some mechanism in which skins that people like better than others are distinguished.

As far as the rating system is concerned... there’s your answer.
It doesn't appear that the rating system is going to change.

^^Gabriel.. but is it worth dealing with the headaches, the insults

The real issue here was the negative comments being made and the rip accusations. A moderator should have stopped that quickly and the comments should be removed. If anyone believes that their work was plagiarized they should contact a site moderator or admin instead of posting a comment.

Majic7

on Nov 27, 2005

the rating goes to 1 star because the auto rating is overwritten.

Why is this allowed? I only comment or rate when I see something I really like. I would gladly give up this access if it meant that skinners wouldn't have to put up with the idiots. We all have to put up with enough of them in the real world. Still not a skinner, maybe someday. It takes enough time just to learn the programs you need let alone doing the actual skinning.

scion2412

on Nov 27, 2005

from my experience so far...it hasn't been rude comments that have gotten to me...it's the endless requests for different features (larger fonts, different color, compact start menu's) that never end. what i've come to find out is that you have to make something for yourself and understand that sharing it with others is just that...sharing. i think alot of us get caught up in making something that will get a good ratings and that others will like (making it for everyone but yourself) and lose sight of it being fun. users have to understand that these skins were not created simply for them and that either they take it or leave it for what it is. unfortunately i think alot of great creations get poor ratings because others are rating on the basis of their own tastes (isn't the color they like, doesn't have a feature they want). if you look at video game ratings...they base their ratings on graphic quality, playability, controlls, intuitiveness...etc. based on the individual ratings you get a blended score. you also find ratings by the site and user ratings in two different catagories. that almost seems to be more fair.

with all of the new features coming out it's becoming more and more difficult to make something worth while. more features equals higher user expectations of what artists are making for free for the love of making something worth sharing. and if what you create does not support those features, your work is considered sub-par. i think the new transparency features will severely limit what we can do down the road...there are only a few ways to utilize transparency. but again, users will expect this.

bottom line is that users need to understand that one of these works is not their own...you either need to use it and love it...or feel free to make your own.

--Gabriel

on Nov 27, 2005

there are only a few ways to utilize transparency. but again, users will expect this.

Oh no, there are MANY ways to get creative with this. People are just stuck inside the "glass box" This opens up alot more, you'll see.

scion2412

on Nov 27, 2005

i really hope it does open up and there are cool things that come out of it. i just hope it doesn't become a standard by which everything is measured and you start seeing comments like "yeah it's great and all but it doesn't have transparency so i won't use it". for some reason those are always the comments that bother me the most...the ones that say "your work is great but it doesn't have ______ "

The Real Shark

on Nov 27, 2005

Now that idea (Adept's) really makes sense. Many times you may look at a skin and think it is cool. But, when you use it, you may like it. And, the opposite is true. There may be a skin that looks so-so. But, when you download and use it, you fall in love with it.

Also, I am very much in favor of the artist being able to nix commnents...

Fuzzy may be right that only skinners should be allowed to rate. But, if this is done then, it could still happen that a very POPULAR skin might get rated down. You know, I also look at the number of downloads before I download. If new skin has several thousand downloads, it's a pretty good bet that it is going to be a hit.

Seems like there could be some kind of compromise that allows the artists to feel more comfortable to be creative.

Jafo

on Nov 27, 2005

Yes. this is a 'problem' and one that is probably at the real root of all the complaint/s.

Since the Admins/mods are all experienced within the skinning community when they post a rating it's from a basis of experience and understanding, so by and large those whose works DO go through moderation are most likely to receive a valid rating 'opinion'.

However, those whose works are auto-approved are currently exposed to the 'idiot rater' and may suffer accordingly...[as above].

I think it's a simple thing to 'fix'....just give that 'auto 6' its own weight....afterall the person who has attained that level of access 'should' be seen as responsible enough to be submitting works of a reasonable standard....that 'should' be publicly visible to all.

Ratings should ONLY be by 'peers'.....people promoted beyond 'citizen' through experience and skinning contribution, NOT through spending a few quid and 'buying the right'.

Comments should be made optional....each skin submission could be set with 'accept all comments', or 'peer only'. The latter may mean fewer comments but they will be from the more 'experienced end of the world' and therefore may be more desirable/valid.

A rating system NEEDS to stay....but I'm sure there's some scope for adjustment.

Not every skinner is thick-skinned. Some just laugh about twit-comments, others are actually hurt by them.

The Number One aim of whatever is done SHOULD be to promote, aid and abet the Skinner.

Wincustomize.com is a "Skinning Site" and therefore its Skinners/Contributors should be placed first within the food chain....a significant distance ABOVE the 'general user/abuser' or even paid-up member.

Just a reminder, though.....anyone having 'grief' from comments, etc....I'm here....

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